Back in November, 2004 L'affaire Roadsworth began, it seems to have come to a conclusion recently with Peter Gibson's community service being the subject of an article in Le Devoir this week. Back when this was all happening, Mr. Gibson risked serious repercussions, and came to Zeke's Gallery for a rather long and extended interview. He had been prevented by the Montréal police from stepping foot in the borough of the Plateau (imagine trying to live here, and not being allowed to be in an area from Parc Ave to Papineau, Sherbrooke to Van Horne). None the less, he successfully made it into the gallery without being arrested again, and we were able to record the proceedings. If you'd like to listen along, click here [42:54 minutes, 41.2 MB] I've chopped it up into four parts. Part One, Part Two, and Part Three are all available by clicking on the links. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, try these two links to get up to speed: one and two.
First I'd also like to thank Jacqueline Mabey, she did an amazing and wonderful job of transcribing the interview. It started out at 20,915 words, and 2:43 hours in length, then a super spectacular job of editing was done by Stephanie McLean. So it ends up at 17, 656 words, or the equivalent of a short novel. I guess that it took about 80 hours worth of work to get it into this form, and I would like to thank both of them profusely and sincerely. I'd also like to thank Urbania Magazine for kind use of their photos (Peter took a bunch as well), and finally I'd like to thank Peter for agreeing to be interviewed.
Part Four
Peter Gibson (cont'd):But there's an absurdity about the whole thing too. The biggest threats to the art are, well, kids, #1. I remember touching art and my dad freaking out on me. But, you know, nice old ladies, you know, the very young or old, who wanted to get close 'cause of their eyesight or the kids want to touch it, and you just feel like you're there to control the crowds, and it's just... you're an authority in that situation, you have to use your authoritative tone with, most often, some nice little old lady…
Zeke: "Excuse me, ma'am...."
Peter Gibson: And not sound condescending or anything, it's just kind of absurd. Yeah, you gotta be nice about it. Diplomacy is very important in that setting. And then you have the other extreme, working at the Musée d'art contemporain, where you have an exhibit of several wooden chairs like the one you're sitting on set up in a row, sort of mimicking an audience space, an empty audience space. Chairs that were probably bought at some clearance sale, I don't know, Leon's or something. But still, people are not to sit on it, not to touch it, of course, it makes sense, you don't want to disrupt the... but it's just so absurd, having that kind of a job.
Zeke: That's one of the things I like about this gallery, people come in and they know the quote unquote rules of engagement.
Peter Gibson: Exactly, the rules, the boundaries.
Zeke: So I say, "No, no, you can touch, just be nice."
Peter Gibson: Exactly. That's the nice thing. And that's the whole thing with public art, you're inviting, you're trying to sort of question those boundaries or break them down. Not that museums don't have a place, and there isn't... but it's just different, it's bringing to value the notion of space and how it's dependent upon... how the space informs the work itself and vice versa.
Lasso by Peter 'Roadsworth' Gibson
Zeke: That's one of my favorite things where I can come upon something in a museum and have that sense of discovery. One that I can always remember is Marcel Duchamp's "The Rape of Lucretia," I think it was, where it's in the Philadelphia Museum, or some museum down there, and what it basically is, is that you walk into a room, and you walk up to this wooden door that has a peep hole which has light streaming out. At which point I looked at it and said, "Oh, OK. This is modern art, this is contemporary. Oh, there's the light." Something drew me closer and I looked in, and there's this life-size whole diorama of this woman getting raped. At which point I said, "Whoa, that's cool." I got into this discussion with my friend Ted, he was living in Philadelphia at the time, he said "That's phenomenal." Because when he had gone it had been on a school tour, and there was this whole line up of people wanting to look, so there was no sense of discovery, you knew exactly where to go. So when I go to a museum I'm always pushing boundaries, "How close can I get?"
Peter Gibson: Well, exactly. I guess you're questioning... it puts the museum people in a tight spot, the security guys. That's why I can appreciate both sides of the argument in my case right now. But, like you said, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't be questioning just because you understand maybe where they're coming from, you also have to push those boundaries. That's the way life works, things change, people change, therefore laws and so on should change accordingly. So that's a little off topic, but…
Zeke: No problem. One other - and I think the last one that I really had - was the original article in The Gazette, back in October, which I missed, just because at that point The Gazette was saying and still is saying, "No, we're not allowing you to read stuff online."
Peter Gibson: Right, it's up for a day and.…
Zeke: There, it's they publish probably 50 to 60 articles a day, and five are available online to anybody and the rest are under lock and key.
Peter Gibson: In the archives, right.
Zeke: How did T'cha track you down, how did you know him?
Peter Gibson: I knew T'cha for a long time, but he actually did a story on a band I was playing in for The Gazette, so I met him then - well, I'd met him before that, even, I'd gone to parties that he'd had. You know T'cha, he's a fixture, and generally just a nice guy. Approachable, you know. So, he had been interested. I wasn't very open about it, my friends knew, I wasn't really bragging or saying what I was up to. But I guess he was interested, having lived in the neighborhoods where I had been active. He was just talking, you know, word of mouth, he was talking to someone in a bar, and they said, "oh yeah, I know who does that," or whatever. And he had also being coming into the restaurant where I work and I'd served him a couple times, so he just came into where I work and asked, "Are you the guy?" Yeah, that's it. So, he wrote that article and the rest is history. The rest is the present.
Zeke: Yeah, as I normally finish up any interview, are there any questions you would like me to ask that I haven't asked?
Peter Gibson: Not particularly.
Zeke: OK, any questions you wanna ask me?
Peter Gibson: Oh God, lots of questions, I think I've asked a few already. Let's see, that's a very good question. Well, yeah, I guess I would like to know - and this is maybe off the record, off topic, not off topic - how would you... oh boy, it's harder being the interviewer than the interviewee, I've realized. I didn't have time to prepare my questions. Well, I guess what I'm wondering is how would you take something that was originally intended for public viewing, without having gone through the authorized required channels, how would you translate that into the museum setting, like your museum for example?
Zeke: This is not a museum setting.
Peter Gibson: A gallery setting.
Zeke: There are, to my mind -
Peter Gibson: An indoor setting, a privately owned -
Zeke: There are three ways. One is straight archival. Yeah, I would love to just borrow, copy, see that disk that the cops have as evidence against you, if you are at liberty to share...
Peter Gibson: I don't know if that's public domain, I'd have to talk to my lawyer.
Zeke: But there, take stuff like that, where, OK, I got the list here, which is probably the most comprehensive list in existence of all the stencils you've done. Bam, one of each. Then, because you did multiples, is there any sort of way getting copies of every single damn zipper, and showing the variations on that, and showing with straight photography. Archival. Go back, recreate the situation, film it, slap it on to a video, have the video display up, have the stencils, have the original cans of paint, and so on. But just something that gives a historical overview. A second way would be to transform the gallery into something approaching an outside setting, whether it's painting the floor black, putting down some lines, and then incorporating in something along those lines. That would probably be the most difficult, just because it would be bam, but however, as a background to a archival exhibit would effectively help, just putting people in a frame of mind, "No, this isn't the street," but.… And this one just occurred me over the weekend, would be - given the way you take a situation and transform it - is then to say, "OK, this is the gallery. How would you transform it." And at which point, not having any straight affiliation or link to the actual pieces that you've done. That to me -
Peter Gibson: That's not keeping to the theme.
Zeke: It's not that it's not keeping to the theme, but it's that once a career, once a name has been established, whether it's like Picasso, started off straight, realistic paintings.
Peter Gibson: That's a good comparison [laughs].
Zeke: Which, as time progressed, he then said, "Bam, I'm doing this." Sculpture. Then suddenly fountains. He's got the name. He had no experience with it.
Peter Gibson: It's almost a sort of marketing... well, that's what galleries... I don't know why I'm uncomfortable with that. That's another thing I have to work out, why I'm so uncomfortable. I am and I'm not. But the whole sort of marketing side of things.
Zeke: Well, there...
Zeke: There once a career has been established, I'll just put temptation in your way.
Peter Gibson: That's funny that this whole notion of career has come up, considering this whole thing was in a way liberating and blissfully free of any kind of career mentality, what I had been sort of preoccupied with before in other aspects, hung up on these notions of career.
Zeke: Well, you can still shuck it off.
Peter Gibson: No, I know, I'm just saying.
Zeke: That is why, one thing, why you are so leery and uncertain as to where and what, is that without any fixed goal, without any fixed idea, say, "This is what it is." And at which point, okay, and not say, "Where do we go from here?" From my perspective, you're still in that sensation and that space of "Where do I do from here?" given that you are much more reflective than I am. You're saying, "I can go down this path, I can go down this path, oh yeah, there's that path."
Peter Gibson: The tyranny of choice. The tyranny of options.
Zeke: There are five other paths and right now you're saying, "Right now, I'm in the collection of what are the possibilities." Then, whereas it's to me, the Yogi Berra line, "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."
Peter Gibson: [laughs] Take all of it, take it all, I want it all.
Zeke: Not necessarily take it. Just, if you come to a fork in the road, take it. Make a decision.
Peter Gibson: You have no choice really.
Zeke: No, you can stop at the fork and say, "Left or right?"
Peter Gibson: No, you're right. You're gonna learn that way, it's a little more… I guess I'm not as… it goes back to boundaries. I was brazen enough to do what I've done but, it's funny, I'm brazen in some ways and cautious in others. It's a funny contradiction.
Zeke: Well, no... it's a slow, gradual acceptance. You remember the first time you went on a roller coaster? My guess would be you were scared shitless. At which point, after the first time, "I didn't die." Second time it gets easier, third time you're off to the races. And it is where as we were positing ourselves as direct opposites, there are certain times where I just put my foot down and say, "No." You're much more open than I am, I will for just irrational reasons shut things down and say, "No, I don't want to go there, I don't want to think about it, I don't want to do it, I don't give a shit." And at which point, there's no way that a team of wild horses -
Peter Gibson: You're stubborn.
Zeke: Very.
Peter Gibson: Are you a Sagittarius?
Zeke: No, Capricorn.
Peter Gibson: I'm a Sagittarius and we're supposed to stubborn, but.
Zeke: Yes, I would say you're stubborn in your own way.
Peter Gibson: Perhaps. But I guess it's also a question of - I mean, talk about morality, it's this big word, this big tome. And I think it's a personal thing on so many levels, your own feeling of what is right and wrong for you.
Zeke: And to me it's adding in a certain amount of respect, because what is right for me doesn't necessarily mean it's right for you.
Peter Gibson: Which is where the law comes in [laughs].
Zeke: And a whole whack of other stuff. But it is then recognizing, so fine, you don't have to join me guzzling beer, you might have a different fuel, that's fine, no problem.
Peter Gibson: No, that's it. I think that is the underlying...
Zeke: OK, now I do have one more last follow-up question, given that brought up questions of goals and careers as an artist and stuff, off the top of your head A) do you see yourself having a career as a visual artist and B) part of that, where would you like to go with it if that is the case?
Shackles by Peter 'Roadsworth' Gibson
Peter Gibson: I guess my entire life I've tried to engineer my life or design my life so that I have as much time to be creative as possible or do the things I enjoy doing as much as possible. I think everyone's like that, it's like the carrot we're chasing, that dangling carrot, working towards this sort of dream we all have, waiting, and someday it's gonna hit, someday I'm gonna get my shit together. Like I said I never thought of it as a career, although it's something I feel I have some talent in, and I feel that it's definitely enjoyable, and sure, if I could make money doing it and not working in a restaurant - although, not that working in a restaurant is so terrible, I like where I work, maybe take some days off here and there - by all means, I'd love a career. But all the same, I sometimes feel weird, this whole thing of being called an artist, I've adapted and that's great, I'm flattered. It's just funny, sometimes, I feel like... yeah, I'll be discovered for the fraud that I am [laughs].
Zeke: You call me an authority figure in art, and I say no, I never took an art history course in my life, up until I opened the gallery, did not know any more - and there it's my take that up until probably 15, 20 years ago I was taken with the idea that you wanna get a job, so then your free time you can do whatever you want.
Peter Gibson: Or if your job is work that you enjoy. That would be an ideal dream for me.
Zeke: No, I always said there were two things that I had a passion for: baseball and music.
Peter Gibson: Why do you say baseball sucks all the time on your email?
Zeke: 'Cause we don't have the team.
Peter Gibson: Oh, you're talking about the Expos.
Zeke: Yes.
Peter Gibson: Do you know Robby Clark, I think his name is? He did a film Nos Amours -
Zeke: Oh yes, Robby Hart.
Peter Gibson: Robby Hart.
Zeke: I went to high school with him.
Peter Gibson: You did?
Zeke: He was a grade a head of me, his brother is Cory Hart.
Peter Gibson: His brother is Cory Hart?!
Zeke: Robby Hart was two grades ahead of me, Cory Hart was one grade ahead of me.
Peter Gibson: Cory Hart's his brother? That's funny, I didn't know that. 'Cause a one point I was neighbors with him for a long time. He just brought up baseball, he's the #1 Expo fan.
Zeke: There are a bunch of #1 fans. Katy Hines who did his film is #1 in certain people's books. So for a long time I was consciously saying, "I will not work in baseball, I will not work in music." Then, due to circumstance, ended up working in the music business and suddenly realized that any job is gonna have these petty things that are annoying, frustrating. If you have a passion for what field you're working in -
Peter Gibson: Don't have a career in it.
Zeke: No, no. That was my initial thinking. But if you have a passion for it, those petty difficulties are much easier to deal with. If you're just in it for the money, all those petty difficulties become mountains. And there, it's the gallery, to me, I didn't have any interest in art, but it is, yeah, being able to sit around and drink beer with friends, fuckin' A! At which point, I can put up with, oh yeah, March's rent? I still haven't figured out yet, but I figure out something for that, 'cause I'm just having way too much fun doing this.
Peter Gibson: Well, that's it. And there is something revolutionary in a way about that decision, in a sense. I mean, maybe revolutionary is too big of a word but it's not the norm. A lot of people are conditioned along those lines of how to get the best career, you know, it's all about security. I don't know. I view it as a privilege. I had the privilege of growing up to be exposed to art and given the ability to take piano lessons... it's been a privilege. But nobody's really immune, I mean, there is always pressure to be a productive member of society, whatever all those things mean to you. In my opinion, there's people who want to be productive members of society that they're causing more harm than good.
Bullets by Peter 'Roadsworth' Gibson
Zeke: It's also dependent upon how you define "productive member of society."
Peter Gibson: Exactly. Well, again, very subjective. But, it's like, some people would be better off sleeping in all day, I think the world would be a better place [laughs]. We think that laziness is the ultimate crime. It does have its pitfalls which I've been victim to, but I don't think this rabid kind of desire to get ahead and make money and get power is necessarily any better than being lazy….
Zeke: Different strokes.
Peter Gibson: Or different spectrum, you know. So this whole project for me was stepping outside of that whole pressure, so to speak, that I think everyone subconsciously feels, or is somehow... there's manipulations, we're constantly - I was anyway - feeling that pressure and I don't know where it's coming from, definitely it's cultural, and maybe family issues, who knows. Although I have to say that my family's always been extremely... pretty cool parents. You know, I'm not one of these... I didn't have a rough childhood, I had a pretty good childhood... I can't use that argument that I had a terrible -
Zeke: Well, you can make it up.
Peter Gibson: Exactly. This whole project for me was very liberating in that I was stepping off that beaten path.
Zeke: I would also say that by doing it, you are also donning a mask of anonymity. That's one thing, I remember I took a workshop in improv theatre, and did this whole thing with masks, and one of the eye-opening experiences was putting on the mask, and realizing, because there were mirrors there and they were focusing me in on it, it's "Oh, this is somebody else, this is different." And because the nature of the project was such that no, you couldn't get your name out, you couldn't be signing it, "I'm the one who did it! I'm the one who did it!" And it is having that cloak of invisibility that is very, very liberating.
Peter Gibson: It is very liberating, and I kind of regret being as sloppy as I was. And there is something very powerful about that anonymity for yourself but also for the public. The second that an identity is revealed it's limiting or something, it's been defined. It's like, Peter Gibson is the guy who does this; "I know that guy."
Zeke: It's interesting, you talk about using the project as a response to and questioning of urban values while enjoying the anonymity. You go back to a rural situation, there is no way -
Peter Gibson: You wouldn't have that anonymity. No, you're right. That is contradictory. you're totally right. There is an anonymity about living in the city because there is so many people. Yeah, you're in a small town, everybody knows everybody else, it's only a matter of time before it's like "Oh, yeah, Peter down the street has been defacing our.…" But that's the great thing about Montreal for me, coming from Toronto, is it's a city, a big city. and there's a lot of things I like about cities, they're a Mecca for cultural exchange, and stuff happening but I think we can have those qualities without... I think we can be smarter about it. In a sense this is the experiment, the city is the epitome of the human experiment to a certain extent, how close we can be together, how much proximity we have be to each other in the same... I mean we should try to make it as sane an experience as possible, because it has repercussions for our place in world. That's why for me, Montreal, let's... I'm a little vexed by these cities trying to be something they aren't. Like, let's celebrate what great and good about this city... but I guess that's very subjective.
Zeke: Everyone has their own interpretation.
Peter Gibson: I guess I was trying to give my two cents. Cities are anonymous. And back to the anonymity factor: yeah, there is something powerful and, in a way, I was thinking people come up to me and are like, "Oh, you were the guy who was doing that." I've been getting that a lot recently, every time I go out.
Zeke: Though, thinking before it broke, did you get anyone coming up to you and saying, "Do you know who is..."
Peter Gibson: Actually, no, I never did. I kind of fantasized about that but it never actually happened. But people when they "Oh, I heard you were the guy" or whatever, "I thought the city was doing that."
Zeke: That freaked me out, people saying the city's doing it. That never occurred to me.
Peter Gibson: I know [they laugh]. I found that very surprising. So there is something powerful about leaving that interpretation open, it's not defined, it's not "Oh, it's that guy, these are his views." And it provided some kind of dialogue, it provided some sort of vessel for people to imagine what they wanted, what they would, about it.
Zeke: I would imagine lots of people come up to you and make suggestions for future stencils.
Peter Gibson: Oh, yeah. I had people come up to me wanting to come out with me, and help me.
Zeke: Future reference, if you want to keep something secret, don't tell anybody.
Peter Gibson: I realize that, don't tell a soul. But again, I'm human.…
Zeke: Secrets aren't the greatest things in the world.
Peter Gibson: Yeah, I guess maybe I'm wary of a danger to keep the secret element because you are kind of withholding something to a certain extent, there's a dishonesty. And I'm not a good liar. I've tried to lie. People have some up to me and said "Are you the one?" And I'd be like, "No, it wasn't me." And I would just do it so badly, there would be this weird feeling between me and that person... they just thought, "This guy's strange." I don't know. It's been a way of coming out, so to speak [laughs].
Zeke: Did you ever take someone's suggestion for a stencil and use it?
Peter Gibson: No, but I did... that's very hard, to credit influences sometimes….
Zeke: I'm not looking for credit.
Peter Gibson: No, I know. But not specifically, no. Nothing in particular. Though people have given me ideas and I have thought they were great, and I've thought, yeah, I would like to do that. But a friend - with that lasso, for example - had mentioned, about something coming out of the sewer like that. I had been sort of thinking along those lines, and I guess with attaching that shackles thing... but yeah. People have given me great ideas, I'm sure they have better ideas than I do. In certain cases like, "Yeah, that's a great idea, I wish I had thought of that." Most of them I came up with on my own, though everything influences you.
Zeke: At some point, when we start knocking the show together, I will sit you down with a list, and will be asking you about the process from the beginning of thought to actual conception for each one. It will be very tedious, I apologize in advance.
Pulse by Peter 'Roadsworth' Gibson
Peter Gibson: Well, that will probably be a good sort of exercise for me, 'cause I'm still sort of trying... disappointingly to some people trying to interview me, I'm still trying to... I don't have a very defined answer, necessarily, for each of the pieces. So people are like, you know, "The security camera, why did you do that?" And obviously, I think the first thing that comes to most people's minds is the whole Big Brother kind of... and yeah, that played into that decision.
Zeke: Although I was disappointed, that was where I noticed you were going a little off track, because initially, the security cameras were all in places that there were security cameras. So I'd see one and then ask myself "where the fuck is it?"
Peter Gibson: They weren't all, they weren't all.
Zeke: When they started?
Peter Gibson: Yeah.
Zeke: The one across the street? I know where the security camera is.
Peter Gibson: It comes back to for me, okay, we are exposed to this imagery, we are being watched, surveilled to a certain extent and we accept it on a certain level. And I'm not saying there isn't a value even. Well, you can argue there's protection of people, well, that's what police do. They are ostensibly there to protect us.
Zeke: Yeah, but they don't follow you around.
Peter Gibson: But it goes back to that question authority. Okay, if you can look at me, why can't I look at you too? If you can say something to me, why can't I be able to at least respond? So that's sort of the idea of security cameras, like looking right back. I mean, it didn't have the... apparently, Big Brother is there to ostensibly protect us, but we have to look at Big Brother.
Zeke: The key word there is ostensibly.
Peter Gibson: I mean that's kind of a cliché, it wasn't one of the stronger ones, it's way too cliché.
Zeke: To me, it was way to big as well, should have made the stencil smaller. The way I got introduced to it was it was located at places were there was already security cameras. Afterwards I started noticing I couldn't find the damn security camera.
Peter Gibson: Like I said, it wasn't as thought-out as I would have liked it to be.
Zeke: You're just a rookie artist [they laugh].
Peter Gibson: Well, that's it. A lot of the thrill is going out with the stencil, and there is a level of improvisation. You know, where can I place this, where will this fit? And sometime those considerations aren't as deeply thought out as they could be.
Zeke: See there, I'd always be thinking, where does this go first, or this is a spot for something, what is appropriate to go there?
Peter Gibson: Well, that would be a more sophisticated level -
Zeke: I'd be a different artist, I can't stencil to save my life.
Peter Gibson: No, you're right. That would be really cool. And people have asked me too, "Why did you... is there a reason for that...?" Some cases there were, but there are also all kinds of logistical....
Zeke: With the lasso coming out of the sewer, I would have thought a monster's hand.…
Peter Gibson: That's exactly what my friend suggested to me.
Zeke: But then, how do you stencil a monster's hand so it is recognizable?
Peter Gibson: Yeah, well, it can be done, anything can be done, for sure. It can totally be done. And that was the exact suggestion of my friend and where I sort of got that idea. That was sort the suggestion of underground elements... we use it and I think that definition has been sort of perverted and distorted. But for me it's something that is independent of the system to a certain extent, whatever you mean by the system, it's sort of a general term. But the underground is sort of engaged in that... it's gonna snag you, you know. Like, "Come and join the underground." It's laying traps, you know.
Zeke: Given that Luci calls me the cowboy, it's very nice.
Peter Gibson: Well, yeah, that's it. You have your own way you like it, everyone seems to like it for different reasons, and for me that's cool but it's also, that's why I hate too limit it with a specific definition.
Zeke: No, your definition does not stop theirs and their definition does not stop yours. The multiplicity of ideas is what makes it wonderful.
Peter Gibson: Exactly. I guess that's what art is in a way, there's a dialogue, an ambiguity.
Zeke: As I said, art makes you think.
Peter Gibson: We need to exercise that part of our brain. That's what's gonna keep us sane.
Zeke: To keep you appraised of the promotional push.
Peter Gibson: This is the part that scares me, in a way. Because you know why I'm I doing this in the first place? Hey, I love the attention, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't. You know, maybe I'm just an attention-monger or at least looking for validation of what I've done. You know it's like "I'm not so crazy after all." I'm not a freak. It feels good, but I'm also wary of this whole pursuing it aggressively in a sense.
Zeke: I'm the one pursuing it aggressively. You don't have to say anything, I'll keep you up-to-date as to what's happening. I give good quote.
Peter Gibson: You have soundbites? I just would hope that those soundbites would reflect maybe what we've talked about, if you're gonna be giving soundbites on my behalf. If you're doing it on your behalf, you can say whatever the hell you want.
Zeke: Now we get down to the crux. Have you ever felt that I've been giving quotes on your behalf?
Peter Gibson: Actually, no not really. No I haven't, not so far. No. You're an independent being. I guess I'm wary of it, because I'm trying to be creative and living a wholesome down - I'm a pretty wholesome guy when it comes down to it.
Zeke: You're much more well-rounded than I am.
Peter Gibson: But I am susceptible too, I still have an ego, I guess I'm wary of it a little bit, all these things, all this attention, and interest, demands a response.
Zeke: Not necessarily.
Peter Gibson: You're right. It doesn't demand a response, but if I chose to respond to it, I'd like to respond to it thoughtfully. And that takes time.
Zeke: I understand that. You should understand that just because I say something, or do something, understand it doesn't mean that you have to do it. You can say "no" at anytime. I am not saying that you must.
Peter Gibson: It's kind of like when you hand me a cigarette, I'm not blaming you, I accept responsibility, but as I was saying before, my wariness is of myself, more than it is of you. I'm susceptible to take that which is given, which isn't always -
Zeke: I'd be more worried if you were saying that you cannot, when it's not offered. If it's offered, take it! Good for you. If it is not offered and you say "I need," then there is a larger difference.
Peter Gibson: Well, that's it, I guess. I'll accept for now. I'm just going through a period of hyper-analysis.
Zeke: Thank you very much for your time, it was fun.
Peter Gibson: No problem, no problem.
Zipper by Peter 'Roadsworth' Gibson
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